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Tuning Stability Problems

If you're having problems keeping the guitar in tune.

1. The most overlooked problem is not having the strings completely stretched in. They need to be stretched hard (except the high E which will break under even moderate stretching, stretch a bit and finish stretching it with big bends of 3 steps or more) until you can stretch them twice in a row and they do not drop in pitch. Use your tuner when stretching strings. With a floating bridge when 1 string goes out of tune, they all go out of tune. Check this page for the full routine.

2. The second most common problem is the trem post set screws not being locked down. There is a set screw inside the trem post which can be seen here and here. Make sure these are tight using the 1.5mm Allen wrench. To make sure they are firmly set after tightening the set screws, turn the posts down slightly using the 4mm Allen wrench, just enough to lock the threads together. You don't want to force it enough to spin an anchor, but you want the threads firmly locked together. If you find the stud anchors do spin see # 13. below. Loose studs will not create dramatic fluctuations in pitch but they are one piece of the overall puzzle. Of course this feature was dropped by Ibanez in 2003 with the new Edge Pro versions of the trem system. The non-locking studs do cause quite a bit of instability in some guitars and not in others, and I have a stud mod kit available to reinstall locking studs into these guitars, but the Edge Pro knife edges are both very fat which causes a lot of problems on return from pullup. See 15 below.

3. Procedure is a very common cause of tuning fluctuation. There is a very specific procedure that should be followed when locking down the nut and fine tuning. Read more here.

4. Another common problem with tuning is not having the trem at the proper angle. See the section on Trem Angle and correct the angle as needed. Although having the bridge at the correct angle has more to do with keeping the strings in the correct radius to the fretboard than it does in instability, again, another piece of the overall tuning puzzle.

5. Loose nut. All metal to wood contact points will loosen as the wood shrinks and should be checked and tightened every 3 months minimum. Tighten the 2 Allen screws on the back of the neck/nut with a 2.5mm Allen wrench to make sure the nut is well secured. You want the nut *snug* but you do not want to OVERtighten. Too much torque on the nut screws is the primary cause of cracking the neck behind the nut! I'll use what I call "medium 1 finger torque", the amount of torque you can apply with one finger at the end of the Allen wrench. It's purely based on the way I feel the torque, but typically 1/4 turn past full contact will keep the nut snug and in place. It doesn't not need to be *tight*, it just needs to be tight "enough" that it won't move. You should also be aware of what is between the mounting screw and the wood. 1/3 of the time you'll have a regular washer and a "boat propeller" locking washer. 1/3 of the time you'll have just the regular washer, the rest will be just the locking. The locking washer against the wood will give alot as the "propellers" dig themselves into the wood. The regular washer will have no give. Knowing what's there will help determine how much torque you need to get the nut snug. If anything is missing it would be a good idea to make sure there are both between the screw and the wood. There are times, especially when using very heavy strings [but I've often seen this on 7 strings strung with 10's] when no matter how tight you tighten the nut the nut still wants to walk. Dive the trem and it walks toward the head, pull up and it reseats itself against the end of the fretboard. This produces an effect where when you dive the trem it comes back sharp, when you pull up it comes back flat. To stop the walking usually nothing short of gluing the nut in place with wood glue will work. Wood glue does not stick well to metal so it's easy to "peel" the nut off later, but will glue it tight enough to keep it from walking. If glue isn't something you want to "mess" with another trick is to cut a strip of a .1 nut shim, form it around the mounting screw and slip it into the hole. This way when you put the screws in there's a little forward pressure already on the nut, and if the screw can't move backwards, the nut aint walking either. ;)

6. Inspect the nut pads for grooves on their curved bottoms that would allow the strings to slip. Pretty unusual but I have seen this on older models. Also make sure you are putting the pads on correctly. The curve on their bottom conforms to the curve on the top of the nut. Some older pads have the curves faced opposite of what we see today. i.e. an LNG Jem's pads peaked tops line up in a row, where a modern pad the peaks line up the same direction the strings run.

7. Neck screws not tight. This allows the neck to move slightly, enough to throw tuning out. Another metal to wood contact point that must be checked periodically.

8. A slightly loose saddle will move occasionally and when it slacks that string makes the rest of the strings go out of tune. Make sure all the saddle lock down screws are tight using the 2mm Allen wrench. Might as well set the intonation while you're at it!! ;)

9. Interference - Check everything in the trem system for contact with the body, wiring, pickguard, your nephews bubble gum, etc. i.e. You'll find quite a few UV's with the pickguard slightly touching one of the tongues at the front of the trem. Any contact will not allow the trem to return to neutral. See this page for pickguard interference. I just did a JS1200 with Edge Pro and the back of the trem was in contact with the side of the rout, you could physically see how far off the trem would return. This is fixed the same way you would do neck alignment on a neck thru, by moving the curved knife edge. If the contact is on the treble side you want to pull the knife out a little to move the trem toward the bass. If the contact is on the bass side you have to pull out the curved knife [easier said than done] and grind off .5mm or more off the end of the knife so that it fits further back into the trem, thereby moving it toward the treble side. The only way I've been able to pull the curved side without destroying it is with cutting pliers, they bite into the knife enough to get it moving. Once it's far enough out you have a crack big enough to get a flathead screwdriver in it becomes a process of wiggling it out. Putting it back in is the easy part as you just tap it in with a hammer until it's flush, and then tap on a large regular screwdriver to finish setting it into the baseplate. If in doubt definitely leave this to a pro.

10. If it's a brand new guitar break the springs in with some violent whammin, up and down. [This will also have a small effect in forming the knife edge to the posts] Same thing goes if it's a guitar that hasn't been played in a long time. Springs get static and create a memory, when you start to break this memory they can react in a non linear fashion until they get "broken in" again.

The next 4 points will require removal of the trem. Directions here.

11. Gummed up knives. Alot of people believe that you should oil the posts and knives. Personally I've never seen any improvement by doing this but what I do see is the oil collect enough dirt and crud to literally gum up the works. Use your wife's toothbrush to clean the crud off of the posts and knives. On the other hand I have seen great improvement on trem return using Chapstick [for the folk offshore that a lip balm product sold in the US and many other countries, it has a very waxy-greasy feel and does work quite well at improving free return to neutral]

12. Grooves worn into the trem post V. When the trem posts have worn out from use or constant adjustment, a groove will wear into the seat or V. Visually inspect and replace if necessary. If your guitar is a pre 2001' it's very possible it has bad posts. The tolerances at Gotoh had shifted and nobody caught it for many years. There is a redesigned trem post that has the correct tolerance in the V. Read more in the next section on Flat Knife Edges and Bad Trem Posts.

13. The knife edges of the trem become worn or damaged and require filing [or possibly replacing] to get back to a proper knife edge. The same procedure as fixing a fat/flat knife edge, see this section to walk you through sharpening the knives.

14. The trem post anchor has become loose. The trem posts screw into a metal anchor that is press fit into the body wood. Over time this anchor can become loose, especially on guitars where the trem post set screws have not been tightened allowing play between the post and anchor, and especially on basswood with is a softer wood. Remove the trem and with the post set screws tight try to wiggle the posts with your fingers to see if there is any play. If they don't move use a junk stud and try again using pliers. [I've had many you couldn't move with fingers alone but pliers showed how loose they really were] If they are loose you will need to pull them out of the body. Make sure to cut the paint from around the top of the anchor, grab the post (preferably using an old junk post to use just for this) with a pair of pliers and work it out of the body. [I use a cats paw [tool for pulling nails] with shims laid across the body to protect the finish] If the play is minor give the headstock side of the hole a superglue coating, then use accelerator to cure it instantly. Check the fit with the insert, if it's still loose give it another coat of superglue, repeat. If it's tight use a good quality wood glue dabbled around the inside lip of the hole press the anchor back into the body the same way you pulled it with pliers on the post. Let sit for at least 24 hours before reassembly. [Many lower line guitars do not have post anchors. Some screw right into a metal plate that is screwed to the body. You get what you pay for.]

You'll have to do the same thing if your anchor is tight, but spinning in it's hole. Sometimes a set screw can be so tight you'll bend an allen wrench trying to get it loose, and turning the post without loosening the set screw causes the anchor to just spin. The only way to free the post is to pull the anchor out so you can grip the anchor with pliers while wrenching out the post. Reinstall as above.

If a loose anchor is neglected long enough it can actually oblong the hole, sometimes to a great extent. You can actually see that the post is not at 90* to the body. If the oblong is under 1mm using the superglue and wood wood glue will fill it enough. Be careful not to use too much glue or when you press the post back in it will be forced in through the hole in the anchor's base. Use plenty, but not too much ;) If the oblong is larger than 1mm you'll need to use a good non shrinking acetone based wood patch on the neck side of the hole. Pack it in, most at the top than in the middle of the hole, but not too much. While it's still wet [work fast, wood patch has a tendency to dry very fast] press the anchor back into the hole and seat it. Try to press it in at a perfect 90* angle to the body. When it's seated pull it straight back out keeping it at the same 90* angle. Let the patch cure for 24 hours and then reinstall the anchor using wood glue as described in the first paragraph. [Always check the bottom of the hole for excess wood patch that has been forced down there when "forming" the new hole. If there's too much it will prevent the anchor from fully seating. Use anything to scrape it out so the anchor can fully seat]

15. Wide flat knife edges. I see wide knife edges on even much order guitars sporadically but it's consistently seen on 1998' - 2001', through initial production Edge Pro guitars. Gotoh began grinding the flat side knives thinner of second production run EP equipped guitars, that could still be cleaned up with a file for optimal return, but the curved sides are typically found to be very fat for all EP's. Then sometime around 2006 they quit grinding them and we're back to the typical fat knives that started a lot of their problems to begin with. The next section is devoted to this problem.

16. Bad trem posts. The next section covers this problem.

Note - 100% trem float would mean it comes back from tune 100% of the time from whammy dives, but also 100% of the time from pull ups. Your guitar should always come back in tune 100% from dives. If it doesn't, you have a problem that can be found above. But guitar very rarely come back 100% from a pull up, in fact few will be at 98 or 99% from pull up which means neutral will have a few strings off by a very few cents, something that the tuner sees but your ears really don't hear. I consider a 95% float one where several strings come back far enough out I can hear it. All of these can be reset to perfect tune by pushing the trem down past neutral to low neutral. Worst case would be a 90% which comes back nearly 1/4 step out of tune on several or all the strings, usually caused by contact with a pickguard, or the wide flat knives with sharp corners in tight posts explained next. For whatever reason, and with *everything* perfect, checked, double checked, and allot of head scratching, I just can't figure out why a 98% guitar isn't 100%. Every now and then I'll actually get one that floats absolutely true, 100%, 0 cent raise in pitch, but man are they rare. The object is to get the performance to as near perfect as possible, and near perfect is easy to get. Near perfect NObody can hear the difference. [you can't fool the tuner though]  You should find that a dab of Chapstick on the studs will improve accurate return considerably even without doing anything else. With fully sorted knives and studs the Chapstick still adds a degree of improvement. The best cheap fix there is. ;o}

Copyright 2000 Ibanez Rules!! All rights reserved.
Revised: July 18, 2007.